Swinger's backswing question--- PLEASE HELP!
 

Hey guys! I'm a total TGM novice so forgive my ignorance, but I have a couple of questions I was hoping you could help me with.

-I'm a swinger, and have some backswing confusion. I start my backswing with a swivel (at least I try to) and then I COCK my right elbow up to complete my backswing.

Is this correct/o.k.?

Because I could do it another way, which would be to swivel, and then BRING THE WHOLE PACKAGE "UP" TO THE TOP- in other words, not "cock" my right arm at the elbow but rather move EVERYTHING- arms, hands, club, the whole shebang, as one unit, up and back until my left shoulder passes under my chin.

I hope I'm explaining this correctly- in one version, the cocking of my right elbow completes the backswing, in the other version, I move the entire package, without really cocking/bending the right elbow (at least not FEELING as if that's what I'm doing) underneath my chin.

It's two totally different feels.

Personally, I feel more comfortable with the "right-elbow-cocking-to-complete-my-backswing" version, but, to my novice TGM thinking, isn't concentrating on or feeling the right elbow cocking in the backswing a HITTER'S move? Is it o.k. for a swinger to have a backswing based on the right elbow cocking? Or am I mixing fundamentals? Please help!

I have tried bending the right elbow as a conscious move both with and without a swivel. I now am set on a right forearm pickup which accomplishes for me what you are attempting. If I think swivel, I tend to go too far inside on the backswing and the clubface opens too much. If you are taking it back closed and outside, a conscious swivel may be helpful, for my swing it is a deadly move. Proceed with the RFP, as described in the videos here or in the book, it may solve all your issues.

I will try to understand the RFP, but can you break it down for me? Does it involve (a swinger) COCKING the right elbow on the backswing, or not?

And did you get what I meant when I said that (to me) there's two totally different feels on the backswing- a "moving everything together under my chin" type feeling, or, a "cock my right elbow to bring the club up" feeling.

To me, they're totally different, and I'm wondering if the "cocking" style is o.k. for a swinger. I hope I'm explaining myself correctly- forgive me if I'm not. Again- I'm a TGM novice.

I assume you guys have already seen this, but it is on topic:

Straight from 7-3 (last paragraph) - "...in compliance with 6-B-3-0-1, Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the left arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK THE LEFT WRIST without Bending, Flatening, or Cocking the Right Wrist. Practice this first at impact fix. So, Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements or Three Dimensions Impact (2-C-0) per 1-L-9. All this you will come to know as THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM."

Refer to the Tom Tomasello correspondance video series to see this 'magic' in the hands of a master.

"Mid-way turn-around"
 

You rotate the shoulders with straight arms and the center-of-graivty of the club (or the "law") will do the rest (bend the right wrist while cocking the left and turn both forearms while folding the rear) for your upswing.

Same for the downswing, if you interrupt it half-way and sustain the "resistance" (or "lag", including pivot, accumulator and club) encounterred.

So, all you need to do for a golf swing is "mid-way turn-around", which is also the "intent" you really need to execute.

Other than that, it's way too much!!!!!!

A hitter uses an action. This is the folding of the right elbow which neatly cocks the left wrist at the same time.
A swinger uses a motion as an option. The right hand pulls the left arm to the top of the backstroke creating a momentum that neatly cocks the left wrist. This momentum is what folds the right arm. I still think it is an option for swingers (I may be wrong, I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night). Check out S. Appleby- he folds and bombs it.

I'm more lost than before.

"So, Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements or Three Dimensions Impact (2-C-0) per 1-L-9. All this you will come to know as THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM."

HK is stating that the right arm does it all - is this true for the swinger?
The confusion begins with the discussion of the left arm, accum. #4, pulling with the left side, uncocking the left wrist, etc.

Does the right arm do it all? It sure is important since it is On Plane. The left arm isn't- it is above plane. There is a right shoulder gyro spinning of the left arm- accum4, Master Accumulator, the pivot accumulator - as the left side begins to pull. This is a no nonsense swift and immediate throw out.

It is the right half of the Flying Wedge that maintains the Magic of the Right Forearm to stay on plane during this explosive throw out. Yes, the right arm is genius.

If my address position is correct, an rfp with a passive body that responds to the motion of the right forearm places the club in the proper plane. I swing and find that conscious lifting with the elbow or turning with the body really gets the club off plane. I really focus on the right forearm for best results. I think the elbow bends due to the right forearm movement, others probably have a better explanation.

Finally someone answering my original question in a way I can understand. Can you please explain the difference- in layman's terms (non-TGM), between RFP and cocking the right elbow on the backswing? I'm starting to get it, but could use more precision and simplicity- AGAIN- I'm a total TGM-challenged golfer who is TRYING to understand (so please, guys- don't get frustrated by my ignorance!). Let me just put this out there and hope someone understands:

To start the backswing, I roll both arms together so that the clubface quickly points along the ball-to-target line. I think I'm doing the swivel. I could be wrong. Anyway, my next move after this roll is sort of a continued two-arm roll moving into a right elbow cocking, which completes my backswing. I'm sure my technique is riddled with errors. Can someone point them out and explain what I, as a swinger, should be doing?

I do not think of swivel or roll in the takeaway, those are bad news concepts for me, as I tend totake it back too far inside. I instead trace the plane line with my right forearm. Everything else responds and at the top I am on plane. If conscious elbow bending or rolling occur, I get off plane. Others probably have much better explanation, for me, less is best for backswing thoughts.

Roger, when you trace the plane with your rt forearm, does your rt elbow stay pretty much in place, (so that your rt hand moves aft of your elbow)?

No, I try to let it "float". My issue is too inside, I try to feel that the elbow follows the right forearm, "up". It is a right forearm pickup according to the yellow book. I try to emphasize the up part in response to the right forearm tracing. I do not try to hold the elbow still as it tends to create too much tension for me and does not seem to contribute to extensor action. Another key is feeling that the left arm is a rope, not tense at all. If you trace the plane line, it puts everything in a great position.

Rfp
 

Roger, to get a better feel for this place a head cover just above your right elbow and hold it against your side. I hope you are a righty golfer.Make some practice swings to see how your forearm moves while the elbow stays in place. See how this keeps your left arm taught. Once you get this feel then take some shots with out the cover.

You say you take it too inside: Make a plane line with a few golf clubs. Take your stance with a 7 Iron(with out a ball)Take the club approx. 1 foot back using the rfp. The club head should look from your view to be outside the plane line.

As an insider myself, you should think up,up,up at the start of your backswing................

Great drill, thanks north to south for the help!

Hi Hacker (great name! - I'm a hacker too, though not too hopeful!)

Some thoughts. I personally wouldn't try to swivel or not swivel or cock (folding) the arm or not. In otherwards, I think the goal is to be on plane. Generally, if you move it back on plane, swiveling will occur naturally, the right elbow will fold, left wrist will cock, etc. Now, when that occurs may be different for each person.

Again, when it occurs may be irrelevant for now. On plane back to me is most important.
Not sure about the 'hitters' move in regards to right elbow cocking (maybe it folds quicker), but...again, my feeling is, concentrate on making an onplane movement. I know sometimes I overanalyze my movement, and can get caught up in 'when' or 'how' rather than 'doing'. I mean, I may make an onplane motion and then question myself as to when my wrist cocks, hips clear, etc....when problably, the onplane motion should be my focus.

Just some thoughts.

-Patrick