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drewitgolf 05-05-2005 04:01 PM

Top Ten Gurus
 
In this weeks Sports Illustrated, the Top 10 "Gurus" are listed as determined by a poll of Golf Magazine's Top 100 Teachers.

1. Percy Boomer
2. Ben Hogan
3. John Jacobs
4. Bob Toski
5. Ernest Jones
6. Homer Kelley
7. Alex Morrison
8. Paul Runyan
9. Henry Cotton
10. David Leadbetter

Trig 05-05-2005 04:36 PM

Re: Top Ten Gurus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf
In this weeks Sports Illustrated, the Top 10 "Gurus" are listed as determined by a poll of Golf Magazine's Top 100 Teachers.

1. Percy Boomer
2. Ben Hogan
3. John Jacobs
4. Bob Toski
5. Ernest Jones
6. Homer Kelley
7. Alex Morrison
8. Paul Runyan
9. Henry Cotton
10. David Leadbetter

Nice to see Mr. Kelley on the list! His influence must be out there all over the place to make this list.

birdie_man 05-05-2005 04:39 PM

Ya man that's awesome really...to be in a big magazine like SI.

When I started reading this I was thinking it would be the ol' "Lead, Harmon, Haney, etc. etc." All the household names.

Ya that's pretty cool...we all know he's #1 tho eh... 8)

Matt 05-05-2005 04:48 PM

6. Homer Kelley

Mantra: Let mechanics produce and feel reproduce

"He applied the principles of physics to golf and opened everyone's
eyes to the seemingly infinite ways to swing the club." -- Suttie

"Some feel The Golfing Machine is the most important golf book
ever written, while others believe it's the most complicated." -- Hebron

Martee 05-05-2005 04:57 PM

Don't have the issue, what was the criteria? Did SI provide a list and then you chose one or rank the top 3?

Matt 05-05-2005 05:15 PM

Where would a nonconformist like Ernest Jones rank among the alltime great instructors? To find out, we asked a cross section of Golf Magazine's Top 100 Teachers to vote on the most influential swing coaches ever and came up with a consensus top 10. We then had a special three-man panel rank the finalists from 1 to 10. After the rankings were added up, the teacher with the lowest point total emerged as our No. 1.

Special panel: John Elliott, Golden Ocala (Fla.) Golf & Equestrian Club; Mike Hebron, Smithtown (N.Y.) Landing Golf Club; Jim Suttie, Cog Hill Golf & Country Club, Lemont, Ill.

Martee 05-05-2005 06:03 PM

well the special panel adds some insight to the rankings.

I wasn't aware the Homer Kelley was a swing coach or golf instructor per-se.

Yes he wrote The Book, yes he taught Instructors, but did he really have a business as a golf instructor?

Not that it probably matters, nice to see that Homer is given credit for influencing golf....

Trig 05-05-2005 06:12 PM

Teaching is teaching
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martee
well the special panel adds some insight to the rankings.

I wasn't aware the Homer Kelley was a swing coach or golf instructor per-se.

Yes he wrote The Book, yes he taught Instructors, but did he really have a business as a golf instructor?

Not that it probably matters, nice to see that Homer is given credit for influencing golf....

I would ask the question this way - how many of the Top 10 actually taught instructors? I'd say that makes you especially influential.

EdZ 05-05-2005 06:57 PM

That is a pretty solid list IMO..... but Leadbetter? Not in the same category in terms of breakthrough teaching IMO. I'd put Knudson on that list before Leadbetter......

I saw a 'swing setter' in action at the range today (LPGA) - no names, but lets just say she was really looking frustrated and swinging poorly. She picked it up and tried it several times, but with not so positive results.

Martee 05-05-2005 06:58 PM

Re: Teaching is teaching
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trig
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martee
well the special panel adds some insight to the rankings.

I wasn't aware the Homer Kelley was a swing coach or golf instructor per-se.

Yes he wrote The Book, yes he taught Instructors, but did he really have a business as a golf instructor?

Not that it probably matters, nice to see that Homer is given credit for influencing golf....

I would ask the question this way - how many of the Top 10 actually taught instructors? I'd say that makes you especially influential.

All of them did, either when they were instructors or as they developed into instructors. Take Leadbetter, Toski, Jacobs and Hogan, they taught a significant number of instructors, the number of instructors who list those names as references is rather high which surprised me.

Burner 05-05-2005 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdZ
That is a pretty solid list IMO..... but Leadbetter? Not in the same category in terms of breakthrough teaching IMO. I'd put Knudson on that list before Leadbetter......

I saw a 'swing setter' in action at the range today (LPGA) - no names, but lets just say she was really looking frustrated and swinging poorly. She picked it up and tried it several times, but with not so positive results.

Nick Dougherty, Faldo's protege and a recent winner on the European Tour, uses one and thinks it is effective.

EdZ 05-05-2005 07:12 PM

apparently her struggles paid off...... just noticed that she has the lead at 4 under - Cavalleri. Something must have 'clicked' out on the course for her. Hard to believe given how frustrated she was earlier!

Yoda 05-05-2005 07:31 PM

The Ground Swell
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf
In this weeks Sports Illustrated, the Top 10 "Gurus" are listed as determined by a poll of Golf Magazine's Top 100 Teachers.

1. Percy Boomer
2. Ben Hogan
3. John Jacobs
4. Bob Toski
5. Ernest Jones
6. Homer Kelley
7. Alex Morrison
8. Paul Runyan
9. Henry Cotton
10. David Leadbetter

I am astounded.

Not at Homer Kelley deserving to make the list -- he did -- but that he actually made it. That stubborn fact means that Golf Magazine's Top 100 Teachers deem his contribution to the game among the most influential in golf's history.

Clearly, The Golfing Machine is not mainstream. And it remains unheralded on both Lesson Tee and TOUR. Therefore, we can only conclude that, despite the virtual 'lock-out' of anything smacking of TGM in the popular magazines -- not to mention the PGA -- that there nevertheless must be a lot of 'closet Machiner's' out there! I do note that two of the three men comprising the panel ranking the top ten finalists -- Messrs. Hebron and Suttie -- are TGM Authorized Instructors.

I am equally puzzled at the blatant passover of the 'usual suspects' of the modern era, e.g., Harmon, McLean and Flick. What's with that?

Could The Golfing Machine be closer to the mainstream than any of us would previously have imagined? The dictionary defines Ground Swell as "An unexpected, sudden gathering of force, as of public opinion." Could this unexpected ranking be the undeniable evidence that such a TGM ground swell exists -- at least among the Top Teachers of the game? And that The Golfing Machine will soon be accorded its rightful place at the forefront of Golf Instruction?

The ulitimate impact of this Sports Illustrated All-Time Golf Guru Ranking cannot be known at this time. At the very least, it is Conventional Instruction's wake-up call. In 1981, with tongue very much in cheek, Homer Kelley said that to win acceptance, any new idea must go through three phases:

#1. "I don't believe it."

#2. "It's against the Bible."

#3. "I knew it all the time."

Looks to me like Phase #3 is well under way.

Bagger Lance 05-05-2005 07:50 PM

The Tipping Point
 
A good read if you happen to pick it up at your favorite bookstore. The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell.

A review from Publishers Weekly
The premise of this facile piece of pop sociology has built-in appeal: little changes can have big effects; when small numbers of people start behaving differently, that behavior can ripple outward until a critical mass or "tipping point" is reached, changing the world. Gladwell's thesis that ideas, products, messages and behaviors "spread just like viruses do" remains a metaphor as he follows the growth of "word-of-mouth epidemics" triggered with the help of three pivotal types. These are Connectors, sociable personalities who bring people together; Mavens, who like to pass along knowledge; and Salesmen, adept at persuading the unenlightened.

There are many, many examples of Tipping Point phenomena.

TGM is close to the Tipping Point and we fully intend to help take it over the line.

6bmike 05-05-2005 08:31 PM

Lynn, you have as much to do with the re-introduction of the main stream consciousness of Homer Kelley and The Golfing Machine as anyone. Your efforts this past year and a half can only be measured in light years. What a ride it has been so far. 8)

Yoda 05-05-2005 08:36 PM

Three Faces Of LBG
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagger Lance
Gladwell's thesis that ideas, products, messages and behaviors "spread just like viruses do" remains a metaphor as he follows the growth of "word-of-mouth epidemics" triggered with the help of three pivotal types. These are Connectors, sociable personalities who bring people together; Mavens, who like to pass along knowledge; and Salesmen, adept at persuading the unenlightened.
TGM is close to the Tipping Point and we fully intend to help take it over the line.

I like it:

Connectors.

Mavens.

Salesmen.

The Three Faces of LBG.

Yoda 05-05-2005 09:48 PM

Warp Speed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 6bmike
Lynn, you have as much to do with the re-introduction of the main stream consciousness of Homer Kelley and The Golfing Machine as anyone. Your efforts this past year and a half can only be measured in light years. What a ride it has been so far. 8)

Thanks, Mike. It's guys like you that are making it all possible. And as far as 'the ride' goes, you ain't seen nuttin' yet...

Bagger! :shock:

Trig! :shock:

Warp speed!

Mathew 05-05-2005 09:54 PM

My list would have Homer Kelley up there at no.1. In the terms of instruction his contribution of the golfing machine is the greatest that has ever been or ever will be.

WHat is Leadbetter doing on that list - what contribution has he made to this generation of golfers - its probably because ol Lead is on the magazines payroll....

birdie_man 05-05-2005 11:26 PM

Well think about it man...how many lessons have been given with TGM. How many hackers have been helped and enlightened by TGM? I think most of those people are going to be excited and want to "spread the good word."

It seems to be expanding pretty well now...I haven't even been with it a year but there's all these new sites with video instruction and all these new features, etc. It must be reaching quite a few people by now. How many people come to these sites now?

How many copies of TGM have been sold Lynn, any clue?

A book this good should not, and cannot stay held back forever. People are dumb, but not that dumb. I think that Homer's work will be recognized in time...it's just too good.

I think one thing about TGM is that some people will not really want to talk about it because it's kind of hard to explain really. I find it hard to explain to most people...they just don't really wanna buy it...you can almost hear them thinking, "Ya. Like I need all that technical BS." And you can't really explain TGM in a few words either.

And of the ones who do buy into...it's possible that they would not want anyone else to know about it! I'm mostly thinking of better players here...hackers just generally want to improve and be happy breaking 80. Unfair advantage to have this book, really...

Theodan 05-06-2005 02:33 AM

TGM reminds me of the "disruptive technologies" of the '90s. Traditionalists wanted only 3 things from them..... and all 3 of them were to "just go away." The problem that wouldn't go away was that when the masses got their hands on something, they liked it. They even learned how to fix it. A reboot wasn't the seminal solution, but it worked. :)

Denial isn't a river in Egypt.... traditional instruction does not cut it, beyond being a co-conspiracy between instructor and student to empty pockets and pursue the golf swing, ad infinitum. The right person is going to have to stand up and say the Emporer is stark nekked. I'm sure that isn't the province of the PGA of America. The average golfer still shoots his 100. The USGA and R&A are proud of that. The nether reaches of the PGA of A see nothing wrong with it at all. As there hasn't been much supply of effective instruction, there hasn't been much demand for it either. That confounds me.

Instruction has been commoditized. There are only 2 successful business plans for a specific market. Either you differentiate yourself and charge a premium or you sell the same as everybody else, just cheaper. Is the PGA trying to keep their members poor?

So sits Homer Kelly at #6. And all the opportunity in the world.

Teach the teachers their chance for differentiation. There is a lttle pull through needed, too. Everybody call 3 instructors in your area and ask if they teach TGM. When they say no, ask them why they don't, beause it works. "Be the first on your block..." :)

The absence of the Icons of Instruction from the past few decades was a resounding crash. Just a hint that past instruction is in intellectual/practical bankruptcy.....

And Mr Kelly will take his rightful place.

Charlie

bambam 05-06-2005 09:46 AM

why?
 
Golf is a thinking person's game. Thinking people question and test what they're being taught. TGM is the only source of golf instruction that, as far as I can tell up to this point, is complete and passes any question or test for hackers and golfers alike. With new communication platforms like the Internet, It won't be long before HK will be atop that list.

birdie_man 05-06-2005 01:06 PM

Here! Here!

DDL 05-09-2005 07:52 PM

Re: why?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam
Golf is a thinking person's game. Thinking people question and test what they're being taught. TGM is the only source of golf instruction that, as far as I can tell up to this point, is complete and passes any question or test for hackers and golfers alike. With new communication platforms like the Internet, It won't be long before HK will be atop that list.


Fess up folks. Who here is a nerd like me?

birdie_man 05-09-2005 08:03 PM

You're on your own man.

birdie_man 05-09-2005 08:06 PM

Just kidding. 8)

I'm a definate TGM nerd/maniac/golf addict in general or w/e you wanna call it.

Anyone who spends as much time swinging a club in their basement (when I'm not golfing, that is) as I do is a TGM nerd.

6bmike 05-09-2005 08:08 PM

Here a nerd. EIEIO

But I like "machine head" if that is what you were implying.

bambam 05-09-2005 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdie_man
Just kidding. 8)

I'm a definate TGM nerd/maniac/golf addict in general or w/e you wanna call it.

Anyone who spends as much time swinging a club in their basement (when I'm not golfing, that is) as I do is a TGM nerd.

The house I just bought has a horse barn...now it's an indoor driving/TGM practice range :lol: Does that qualify?

metallion 05-09-2005 09:03 PM

I have a hard time finding SI over here. The online version seems to be open to americans only. I'd be grateful if someone could print the online version & mail it to me - or scan of the paper version.

I know its a lot to ask, but if you do not ask... :roll:

Matt 05-09-2005 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metallion
I have a hard time finding SI over here. The online version seems to be open to americans only. I'd be grateful if someone could print the online version & mail it to me - or scan of the paper version.

I know its a lot to ask, but if you do not ask... :roll:

I sent you an email. Let me know if it works.

birdie_man 05-09-2005 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6bmike
Here a nerd. EIEIO

But I like "machine head" if that is what you were implying.

YES. Machine head is better. Nerd sounds like someone with thick glasses who studies calculus, worships William Shatner, and theorizes about the universe or something.

Quote:

The house I just bought has a horse barn...now it's an indoor driving/TGM practice range Laughing Does that qualify?
Holy crep. Ya, that'll do 'er. How do u have it setup inside??

metallion 05-09-2005 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt
Quote:

Originally Posted by metallion
I have a hard time finding SI over here. The online version seems to be open to americans only. I'd be grateful if someone could print the online version & mail it to me - or scan of the paper version.

I know its a lot to ask, but if you do not ask... :roll:

I sent you an email. Let me know if it works.

Thanks a bunch, Matt! =D> =D> =D>


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