.....does this mean these players could be/could have been better then? I don't know....
Now you are getting somewhere Birdie. Keep thinking along those lines because LBG is basing our entire future on it. Stationary head and tripod center are just two elements of a more precise golfstroke. There are many more. If you look at our tagline we are about Precision and Power. Can the best in the world make use of more precision? What about the hacker?
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Anyone got a wall I could bang my head against....
I'm sure you can find one for yourself if you try hard enough Mathew....lol...
Or a stress ball.
Know what works good? Give the meaty part of your index finger a good solid BITE!!....(hey I guess that's PP#3 eh )....makes the frustrations of life just melt away man...
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Yes that is where exactly where Sneads spine is.
Yes that is precisely where my spine is.
I don't think you can deny it birdie - that is where the spine goes.
Ok there you go....maybe if that pic was posted in the first place. I only denied it because the first pic didn't show that as clearly.
Regardless, those (u and Snead) are only 2 pics....and only one was a world class golfer. (and it's only 1 pic of Snead)
Still a lot of hip slant but there you go....there's A pic where his head isn't Stationary OR centered between the feet.
And his spine isn't tilted towards the target either.
But it's only 1 pic....
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Your definition of a reverse pivot is a spine tilting away from the target.
Nono- towards the target. To me, ya that's more or less what it is. (although there are different degrees of tilt as well as different degrees of how well it works for people)
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Your assumption was that concentrating on a stationary head causes a reverse pivot.
Really...as to not overgeneralize.....what I REALLY think....is it isn't a good pivot for a lot of golfers.....like most slicers....and I don't buy into the idea that it is optimal, long-term, for ALL people and ALL shots.
....
I mean....and I don't even care....
I prolly have a toward-the-target tilting spine for a lot of short iron shots or chips/pitches or lower trajectory shots.....but not for driver ever....and not for normal/high trajectory mid-long irons....
And I setup with my head prolly in the center of my stance sometimes (or even forward of it)....i.e. on chips/pitches/low shots...
I personally don't ever keep a Stationary Head for anything but non-Pivot Strokes....i.e. chips/putts.
That's me personally. I know you prolly don't care but w/e....
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So basically what your saying is that Adam Scott, Jack Nicklaus, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, Moe Norman, Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and pretty much every great player in history has a 'reverse pivot'. Ok .....
Yes....emoticons....
Anyway....
I don't agree....
You have to look at more than one picture of each player...and look at pictures with different clubs in hand and hitting different shots....
But.....
Disagree with "every great player in history".....
Disagree on Adam Scott and Jack Nicklaus....
Disagree a lot of the time (depending on the shot or sequence you're viewing) on Ben Hogan, Moe Norman, Sam Snead....
Maybe for some shots or in some sequences....
And BTW....sure....Bobby Jones had a "reverse pivot"....lol. If we're gonna go by that definition. (how strongly you react to the term "reverse pivot" is up to you...I do realize it's usually a super negative term so might not be the best fit)
But it worked for him obviously- the guy won the slam.
I don't care man I've got nothing to hide.
Here- works for Freddie and Sergio too.
There you go. (whoopty doo)
...
The bottom line for me is do what works best for yourself. (and I think that leaves more than one option)
Last edited by birdie_man : 11-08-2006 at 03:41 PM.
They are not a sequence - but the two frames I took with my digital camera seperately on self timer. I could of easily walked into a different spot, I may of put the camera down at a slightly different angle, I may of swayed... who knows....
The intention is to only show the position of the spine relative to the hip action.
Try again
No doubt they are in a different spot based on the position of the hips and the middle board of the door.
There was a film done by TGC with Jim McLean and Sam Snead. The video has a lot of footage of Sam Snead's swing. In the film Mr. Snead indicated that he allowed his head to swivel a little, but otherwise he kept the head steady.
I think that from some of the posts from Mr. Skywalker... we can see that in order to keep a centered HEAD in a golf stroke, the various portions of the SPINE(Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar) are not staying straight like a ROD. Actually... if this is attempted, the HEAD WILL most likely MOVE during the stroke.
There was a film done by TGC with Jim McLean and Sam Snead. The video has a lot of footage of Sam Snead's swing. In the film Mr. Snead indicated that he allowed his head to swivel a little, but otherwise he kept the head steady.
I think that from some of the posts from Mr. Skywalker... we can see that in order to keep a centered HEAD in a golf stroke, the various portions of the SPINE(Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar) are not staying straight like a ROD. Actually... if this is attempted, the HEAD WILL most likely MOVE during the stroke.
Agreed . . . According to 1-L the Stationary Post is at least in my estimation a imaginery line through the head and into the ground. The spine is the center of the shoulder turn and NOT the center of the stroke. The POST doesn't bob and sway meaning the TOP of the post (head) and bottom . . . point on the ground in the middle of the feet.
But it must "work" for you, Sonic. That's because the "One Stroke" described in The Preface refers to its Geometry, i.e, the relationship of the Circle (Clubhead Orbit / 2-N-0) to the Plane Line.
Happily, the Stroke Pattern used to accomplish that essential Geometry is entirely the player's option. And here the choices are virtually unlimited.
Thanks for clarifying Yoda. I think what I meant to convey was that Homer's preference (wrt the pivot centre) for accomplishing that geometry would be a centered head that swivels but does not sway nor bob. Now I may not be able to pull that off physically but nonetheless,,, its the preference. Make sense?
O c'mon man....in the real world no one would call a human a machine in the same way as they would call a dirt bike a machine...
Birdie, in the real world, machines take many different forms. The word machine was defined long before dirt bikes were around. In my world we define a rope as a machine.
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Yes it is.....that doesn't mean all theories are fact though.
Never suggested that, just that every theory requires a level of acceptance.
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Yayaya.....but Homer obviously didn't mean it that way or else we would have:
"The Golfing Machine....chapters 7 and 10......24 Components with 24 Absolutes...and no Variations."
No, I agree with you here and I took some liberty with my interpretation. I was trying to cite Homer's preference for a head centred pivot.
Stationary head and tripod center are just two elements of a more precise golfstroke. There are many more. If you look at our tagline we are about Precision and Power. Can the best in the world make use of more precision? What about the hacker?
Spot on Bagger. This is what I believe.
Along these lines, I wonder if pros (you guys in here can weigh in please) feel like they are keeping a stationary head and the variance can only be observed in video slo-mo? I don't think I've ever read about pros trying to move or maintain a couple inches movement either way.
There was a film done by TGC with Jim McLean and Sam Snead. The video has a lot of footage of Sam Snead's swing. In the film Mr. Snead indicated that he allowed his head to swivel a little, but otherwise he kept the head steady.
I think that from some of the posts from Mr. Skywalker... we can see that in order to keep a centered HEAD in a golf stroke, the various portions of the SPINE(Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar) are not staying straight like a ROD. Actually... if this is attempted, the HEAD WILL most likely MOVE during the stroke.
That swivel of the head is a move more people should use IMO. One of the reasons people tend to move their head in the first place is that it gets in the way of the shoulder turn.
Far easier to both keep a steady head, and to get a fuller turn, with the chin swiveled before the takeaway ala Snead and Nicklaus.
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"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
)....makes the frustrations of life just melt away man...
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