[okie]

I think Scotty Cameron (and a lot of high tech gadgetry) suggests 4 degrees is a good number. I think the greens have to be billiard table like not to have ball caused depression. What Homer Kelley was suggesting (as best I understand it) works better on faster greens, especially the negative loft idea. I am trying to reconcile true roll, with the need to lift the ball out of the depression which according to Ralph Maltby and Scotty Cameron is a reality. I think Phil Mickelson has quite a bit of loft, and I read that Stan Utley recommends more lof for most people.